Subliminals and morality

[Tap]

04/12/2015 at 7:47 pm

So I have a lot of ideas of how I can expand my uses of subliminals on my wife. However, the issue of me being a Christian and what’s moral stops me.

What I mean is I think about how I may be judged after I die, about the things I have done, such as making these subliminals. I justify to myself that my current affirmations are fairly in line with how God would have wanted my marriage to be or at least it is not anti-Christian. I would like to put slave affirmations in my foundation file as I have done in the past, but then I feel that this is morally wrong to do and that nagging feeling sticks in the back of my head.

If I was an athiest, I can see myself going all out on this. My wife has always told me if I ever cheated, it’s over. Well, sometimes the darker side of me wants to put affirmations where she would accept it if I cheated and would be ok with it. It seems like an easy thing to do, and it probably would work. However, I know morally this is simply out of the question as is cheating in general. The dark part of me also thinks that due to my subliminals, if I did cheat, she’d probably still stay with me. I don’t want to test that out though.

I’m curious how people deal with this?

[tonguester4_69]

04/13/2015 at 7:06 am

I’m in the same camp as you Tap. Any files I use have to line up with how I believe God wants my marriage or wife to be. Of course it were not for my belief in God, there would be absolutely no reason to do whatever I wanted to do with these files.Some may believe that there is a basic morality separate from faith, but whatever they hold as morality, is simply limits as to what experience and the law allows them to get away with, in my opinion. Perhaps what most call morality is simply the result of social pressure.

[adrz74]

04/13/2015 at 7:11 am

Hey, I’m an atheist, what are you saying about us? Hmmm, after thinking about some of the stuff I’ve done and thought about doing… maybe you have a point, lol.

In all seriousness, though, this is a very good question, one I’ve considered quite a bit also. I’m an atheist and a libertarian, and I’d say those two things are the main drivers of my morality. Simply put, one should be free to do anything as long as you do not harm another person or their property. I think it’s wise for everyone to explicitly define what your morals are, and then that allows you to establish boundaries in your behavior. (Technically, I would encourage this thinking for ALL your behavior, not just with subliminals.)

So to apply my morals to subliminals (and now hypnosis), I just ask – am I harming another person or their property? I obviously want the answer to be “no,” and the best way to do that is to make sure my wife is always happy. If she’s happy, I don’t see how I could be acting immorally.

But I can see how this might not work for you, Tap. Even if both you and your wife are happy, there are certain activities that are essentially forbidden in Christian morality. (Note that I was raised Christian, so I’m pretty well versed in topics dealing with Christianity, even though I’m not one anymore.)

Based on what you wrote above, it looks like there are two areas you are considering. First, having your wife think and be your slave. I actually don’t see an issue here. Many of the Bible verses dealing with marriage do give the man dominion over his wife. Groups like the Amish who interpret the Bible very strictly do not allow women to question their husbands (unless he’s commanding her to commit a sin). If you google phrases like “submissive wife,” you will find references to BDSM of course, but you will also find many blogs by Christian women who voluntarily submit to their husband. Additionally, there are several blogs websites encouraging Christian couples to have an exciting sex life. Putting them together, I don’t see any issues with you turning your wife into your sex slave. From what I’ve seen at these websites, it looks like all flavors of monogamous sex in marriage are acceptable, including (but not limited to) oral sex, anal sex, sex toys, role play, dressing up, bondage, spanking, … (I recommend you confirm this for yourself and not just take the atheist’s word for it, lol.)

For the second one, having sex outside your marriage, I don’t think I can help you… For the record, if both partners consent to the action, it is no longer considered “cheating.” Cheating requires deception. There are plenty of folks, myself included, in what’s called an open marriage. So yes, both my wife and I have had sex with other partners after we got married. We don’t consider that cheating.

One final comment – I think you (Tap) may have a general sense of guilt because you think you are deceiving your wife into doing things she wouldn’t normally do. I felt that way myself for a long time. And I think we may justify it by telling ourselves that we are doing what we must to make our marriage better, we are doing it out of love for our wives.

But here’s the good news – the more I’ve looked into female sexuality, the more I’m convinced that women are highly sexual naturally. I know it doesn’t always seem like it, and for guys who have been in sexless marriages for decades, it probably sounds insane. If you don’t believe me, set up an account at ashleymadison.com (for example) and see just how many married women in your area are looking for affairs. (I’ve met women through that site, so I can vouch for its authenticity.) Read (or skim) 50 Shades of Grey. Go into any bookstore and see how the Romance section dominates all other categories. And if you want something more scientific, read the book “What do Women Want?” by Daniel Bergner or “Vagina” by Naomi Wolf.

The fact is, we are not changing women into something they don’t want to be. We are nudging them in the direction that they really want to go, that they are craving to go. Every woman wants a man to unleash her sexuality, her femininity, her submissiveness. Frankly, it can be done overtly, but I don’t see any reason to feel guilt over doing it covertly. I think those of us who have seen changes in our wives see two main things. One – she has become much more willing sexually. Two – she is much much much happier, possibly the happiest she’s ever been. And that’s a wonderful thing.

[seekenq]

04/13/2015 at 7:52 am

Tap:

Great post. Thanks for opening the discussion.

I have given the morality question alot of thought since I started playing subliminals. Morality is a highly individual thing, what one finds moral another would find unacceptable. Accordingly, I can only speak for myself here but here are a couple of things that made me feel better about my use of subliminals:

The “Why” of a thing is important. A significant number of folks here on the site said they love their partners deeply but turned to subliminals as a way to save their relationships. In several cases it was see an improvement with subliminals or breakup. This was true for me and while the end does not always justify the means, striving for for a positive outcome does make a difference. We are still together and happier than ever so I would call this a positive outcome.

In my case, and for several others here, subliminals were used to undo prior traumatic events and/or negative programming which occurred before we met our partners. The root cause of the problem has nothing to do with us. In my wife’s case it was a date rape at a young age and subsequent turn towards fairly radical feminism in college. Despite years of counseling she had a negative view of sex and her sexuality. While not completely gone the subliminals have made a huge positive impact.

The most effective subliminals use only positive messaging. A couple good examples are the “foundation” scripts people frequently recommend – ” I love sex” and “Husband’s Happiness”. I also try to reference the desired behavior back to making her feel happy, contented, safe, good, etc. in all my custom scripts. If one was to write subliminals that had negative massaging then I think that would cross a line (for me at least).

The one area where I struggle I using silent subliminals without the partner knowing. I admire those on the site that have openly informed their partners but I am not there yet. I would observe that the folks that do so are typically in some form of D/s relationship and communication and consent are critical aspects of the D/s lifestyle.

You mentioned your wife’s opposition to cheating and your unwillingness to use subliminals to overcome this. For you and your wife cheating is the immoral act and so you concluded that using subliminals to make her OK with it would be wrong. This goes back to the Why of it. If your wife had some bisexual tendencies / fantasies but was afraid to explore them, would use of subliminals to bring a third person into the relationship be cheating ? Would it then be immoral ?

[Jasetweetie]

04/13/2015 at 5:14 pm

I understand your concerns and share them to some extent. The Bible calls Christians “servants” but is actually being kind; the word translated “servant” can also be translated as “slave”. As Christians, we are to be slaves to Christ and obey Him completely. Using this line of thought, my wife obeying me as I obey Christ is simple biblical logic because I am supposed to be in charge of my marriage. Wives are to be their husband’s help-meet and have to be told to be submissive in Ephesians because they won’t on their own. We as husbands have to be told to love them as Christ loves the church in the same passage because we won’t do it on our own.

My wife is a people pleaser, yet has never been worried or concerned with pleasing me because (according to her) she knew I wouldn’t leave regardless. Like seekenq, I’m using these to get her past sexual abuse by a family member. She is very submissive, but doesn’t like the term slave. She doesn’t mind the term servant. Talk to your wife and figure out where she is on the subject. We are working with the term servant for now, but she knows I want more than just a servant. As long as you are both involved and making the decision together as a couple, I’d say you are on solid, biblical ground.

[Tap]

04/13/2015 at 8:45 pm

It seems like this opened up a nice discussion on the topic. It’s good to hear what other views are. It’s interesting how some interpret the Bible as saying wives are to be servants/slaves. I didn’t think of it like that. I guess the term slave still has a strong negative connotation to me which is why I view it as morally wrong.

I think if my wife had bisexual tendencies in general, I would think it’s morally wrong in itself. Don’t get me wrong, it would have been fun to have a threesome with two girls but before I was married. That type of girl to me wouldn’t be wife material, but someone to have fun with.

To be honest, before I was married I had a lot of girlfriends. I would even often cheat on them because to me, it wasn’t as strong of a commitment. I was young and it was nothing to me. It was about getting the most pussy I could. 😀

Getting married in a Church and with the vows I made, it always meant something more to me, a deeper level of commitment that I had to live by. It is strange though how I separate the two in my head just because of marriage.

[Fizbin]

04/17/2015 at 7:04 am

I am inclined to agree. I focus my scripts on topics that reinforce what my wife has already said she wants.

I also believe that while you may be able to coerce compliance and/or obedience, submission is a gift from the one submitting, and our personal goal as the recipient should be to try being worthy of that gift.

[a_texen]

04/18/2015 at 2:11 pm

Tap, you have to remember that in the beginning of things God meant women to be in subjection to the husbands. All you see today is what man’s idea is. What God wants doesn’t matter anymore. Remember, even Sarah called Abraham “lord”. She was in subjection to him like it should be but isn’t today with women’s lib and such. Man’s laws have screwed things all up
In closing, returning her to what women were originally is the best thing you could do for her!!

[oldfart]

09/22/2015 at 9:11 am

Thank you for a great discussion on a topic that I, too, have pondered many hours over. I started using subliminals quite a bit, obedient wife, subliminal thoughts, among others. She has shown a big shift towards being submissive which I have found quite helpful. Then the big black cloud, what have I done? The big self incriminating discussion back and forth ended up with me stopping the subliminals altogether. Now after reading this and thinking it over a bit, I may continue with the program. Submission is one thing that I was after and have made progress on. But the other thing was submitting to sex more often. I have made some progress on that also, just not to the extent of sex on demand, so to speak. Maybe later on in the program having a third party in on it would be considered. But for now I a have a lot to think over and some scripts to get ready.

[Tap]

10/24/2015 at 8:09 am

I have found that as long as I don’t put affirmations that I know are against my moral beliefs, I can live with it.

[pizzaman69]

11/24/2015 at 2:39 pm

I am betting that most here had a love relationship and sex life that was hot and great maybe at first… then the grind of life and daily battles and wear and tear of long time monogamous relationship just over time changed it…. maybe even killed it….. now the passion is gone and she seems bitchy alot *LOL*

Did anyone else come here because you sometimes feel trapped in unhappy relationship and wonder what happened to that great love/sex life full of pleasure and happiness you used to have?

That thought will eventually lead to something like = she changed!!! I have been tricked!! I want her back!!

And so I see subliminal messages influence as almost rescuing a wonderful sexy happy loving woman from a prison or captor that somehow she has gotten trapped by. We are rescuing women from the misery she is in now so she can once again be the happy loving sweet and sexy babe we once knew.

I know she likes and agrees with the messages because at one time, thats how she was…. and I bet I am not the only one that is coming at this from this perspective.

I know she can be submissive, supportive, pleasant, sexy, flirtatious, horny, even slutty and in general wonderful to be in a relationship with because at one time she was that way before the daily grind of marriage took her prisoner….. So I look at it this way —->>> my messages are in a way setting her free to be the woman that I fell in love with and asked to marry me.

Therefore it is all for her best interest and good and she will be happy for it.

I dont do any degrading messages or anything that I believe she would disagree with because for one thing its a waste of time…. imho you can not force her to do something she doesnt want to do…. or make her in to something she is against or doesnt want…. I dont think subs can fundamentally change or control or brainwash the person into something she is not….so even if you have messages like that I think they do nothing.

but…. if you construct messages around the good she used to do but she rarely does anymore…. or the fun sweet sexy girl she used to be…. or things she holds her self back from but you know she would like to be more that way (maybe just give herself permission to be that way) and use subliminal messages to encourage that,, then I think that will work great.