Mind WorkStation software

[seekenq]

03/03/2014 at 4:05 pm

Has anyone used Mind Workstation software for creating affirmations / hypnotic scripts ?
It seems to be the tools of choice on some of the Hypnosis sites.
Thinking about getting a copy and wondered if anyone here has any experience.

[eldrin81]

03/03/2014 at 4:43 pm

Seems a little pricey for something you can do yourself in Audacity and TextAloud already ($180-200). A binarual beat is nothing more than two different frequencies, one played in each ear, and the brain interprets the difference in frequency between the two, causing supposed brain wave entrainment to that difference. Isochronic frequencies do the same thing but from a singular feature. Both are easily achievable in Audacity. Is the value you perceive in this tool one of convenience? or are you not confident in your ability to produce some of these things yourself? The professional look of the website and screenshots would certainly lead one to believe that this tool has some added value, or somehow uses tecniques that we are not aware of, but I don’t see that myself.

Its your money in the end man, but 200 bucks is a lot of money to drop, at least for me, and I hate to see you end up with buyer’s remorse. Then again I have become very frugal in the past year and won’t drop money on something unless the added convenience saves me LOTS of time, or has some added knowledge value that I cannot ascertain myself. For instance, to research the techniques here would have probably taken me alot of time, trial and error, with no measure of what I was doing was effective or correct.

[eldrin81]

03/03/2014 at 4:48 pm

Ah, nevermind, I see there is some visual component’s tied to the programs usage. The AudioStrobe name threw me off a bit. Its still fairly pricey though. Maybe Fizbin is familiar with it or has heard about it.

[Fizbin]

03/04/2014 at 5:49 am

Sorry, no. It hasn’t been on my radar until now. I might check out their web site and report back…

[xythont]

03/04/2014 at 1:03 pm

I don’t have the full mind workstation, but I do have and use the Neuro-Programmer software, and that’s pretty good. Not only can it do binaural tones, it can also do isochronic tones, which is much more useful for our purposes. Isochronic tones set up entrainment using what amounts to an interference pattern in the sound. Unlike binaural, isochronic doesn’t require left-right separation in order to be effective. If you want a good entrainment program, go for the Neuro-Programmer, since you can do everything else with the tools mentioned above.

[seekenq]

03/04/2014 at 3:22 pm

Xythont:

Thanks for the feedback.
I’ve been seeing a lot of files on the net with isochronic tones which claim to do all kinds of things.
I have yet to find a summary anywhere that describe which frequencies do what.
Have you seen anything like that out there ?
Alternatively, can you point me to any places to learn more about Isochronic tones ?

[trainer81]

03/04/2014 at 7:50 pm

I’m curious about both isochronic and binaural… Do these require headphones to be effective or can they work with just a speaker? If just a speaker, will it affect me as well?

Thanks in advance…

[eldrin81]

03/04/2014 at 10:03 pm

Binaural a rely on having a different frequency presented in each ear, and your brain “hearing” the difference. Isochronic tones do not and can be played from a speaker. Anything you hear will affect you.

[xythont]

03/05/2014 at 11:51 pm

Eldrin’s got it right. For the purposes of most of us, isochronic is the way to go. However, I would say use them sparingly. Entrainment tends to lose effectiveness if it’s overused. The brain gets used to it and adapts. If you are able to convince her to listen to a “relaxation track” (similar in prinicple to the platinum recordings) then that would be a place where I would (and have) used isochronic and binaural tones. Using them in a constantly running track… I don’t have empirical data, but my research says it’ll lose effectiveness before long.

[seekenq]

04/05/2014 at 3:44 pm

About three weeks ago we had some friends over for a dinner get together.
Turns our that one of my girls good friends a big fan of Binaural beats and listens to them regularly.
We had a big discussion about about Binaural beats / Isochronic tones etc. and my girl was very interested.
Her friend had hea couple of files for sleeping on her phone and gave them my girl.
Fortunately she loves them and has been listening (with headphones) every night.

I decided to bite the bullet and pickup up a copy of Mind Workstation.
I have been studying / learning to use it and it is an amazingly flexible package for creating entrainment files.
I have been sharing my enthusiasm and explaining some of the cool things I have been learning with my girl.

She was getting bored with the couple of files from her friend (inevitable) and so I made some files for her.
She has started listening to some of my sleep / dream files to help her get to sleep.
So far she likes my files better and I am getting her feedback “to help make files especially for her”
My files of course have a sub-audible track in them but so far (a week) it is just focused on her positive reinforcement around listening to the files.

I thought I would create a couple of background tracks with entrainment and then make them available to gold members.
These would be like the rain file but with an isochronic or binaural beat entrainment track in them.
I can do a low Alpha track for daytime listening and another Theta / delta track for night and sleep and dreaming.
The low alpha range is where suggestibility is highest and the low theta / delta range is where the subconscious is more accessible.
Trainer said he is working on an upload section which should be ready soon.
In the interim I thought I would do a survey or two to figure out where to begin.
If we get the files ready before trainer has the upload section ready we will figure something out.

I wanted to do a quick survey won what would be of interest:

First question: alpha (for daytime conscious listening) or Theta / Delta (for nighttime / sleep)

Second: There are numerous background ambient sounds (all royalty free):
Rain, Rain with thunder, Wind, Waves, Big waves, babbling brook, forest sounds etc.

Another question is length:
I figured I would do an hour with an initial ramp down for 10 minutes or so then flat at the alpha or theta frequency.
No ramp back up so you could loop the back end of the file indefinitely.
Alternatively, I could do a set of three shorter files: Declining ramp, flat at the frequency (for cut / paste looping) , rising ramp.
Not really a big deal to create but might be a little harder to use since you would need to cut and paste in Audacity.

Lastly: Isochrornic tones or Binaural beats

Let me know and I’ll put something together.

[adrz74]

04/07/2014 at 2:09 am

My wife definitely needs help sleeping at night. she gets super stressed at work and it keeps her from sleeping deeply, or even prevents her from sleeping. I think others have mentioned similar problems.

I think a great start would be something analogous to the Amy converter — you want to condition them to accept listening to these every night. If I’m reading the above correctly, it sounds like that’s what you’re doing with your woman? I’m guessing a simple script that encourages sleep/relaxation/restfulness and also encourages an addiction to listening to the sounds every night. Ideally she would listen to that for, say, a month, and then readily accept any substitute script you replaced it with later on.

[seekenq]

04/07/2014 at 2:53 am

I was going to set it up as a background track and then as a gold member you could add your own scripts on top as needed.
If you are fortunate enough to have a girl who will actively listen to audible scripts the Low alpha / High Theta entrainment frequency should increase the effectiveness of those scripts.
I’ll talk to trainer and see if he wants me to make a version as a converter.

Yes, you are correct, I am adding suggestions to encourage repeated listening in my versions.
I think active listening to sub-audible scripts embedded in a sleep file may be more effective than just silents.
Time will tell.

[tonguester4_69]

04/27/2014 at 11:35 am

From every thing I’ve read, isochronic seems to be best, as it does not require headphones to get the same effect. As far as background sounds, I think preferences would vary greatly, according to what each girl likes.
As far as entrainment, we did have a discussion, , in which some members were of the opinion that inducing entrainment for too long, was not very effective. I tried using a 4hz isochronic tone, as a background for a file, and my wife complained it kept her awake. I do know that some erotic hypnosis sites use them regularly in their files though, so in a lengthy way, I suppose I’m saying I don’t really know what to say about that part, LOL

[eldrin81]

04/27/2014 at 12:37 pm

I think the loong term reduction in effectiveness from isochronic tones, is more likely to be seen from constant use, than simple limited daily use. My own self tracks still have those tones, but I listen to them maybe an hour every day or so.

[seekenq]

04/27/2014 at 4:52 pm

Isochronic tones are good with and without headphones. Beats only work with headphones.
Long term use of isochronic tones will definately lose effectiveness if used in a static way.
They also can be boring / fatiguing to listened to on their own.

One approach to maintain effectiveness is to vary the base frequencies over time (generally lower over time).
This is essentially what Cernterpointe does withe their multi-year, multi-thousand dollar brain entrainment program.
For example: To get a 4 Hz tome you can start with 120 and 124 Hz tones. You could also get 4 Hz with 110 and 114 Hz or 100 and 104, etc.
All very easy to do in the MWS software.
Folks on the forums there actually reverse engineer some of this stuff and posted DIY templates.

There are other approaches to get the entrainment as well.
You can modulate a base music or ambient sound loop as well.
Adding this to an isochronic tone track makes the isochronic track much more bearable.

Tongue: I can understand how a 4 Hz constant isochronic would keep her awake. The frequency is a little high for a pure sleep track.
For sleep I would do a ramp down from 12 of 14 to something around 0.5 to 2 Hz.
The problem with this is the sleep frequencies are too low to be effective with subliminals.
If we want to do an entrainment for sleep plus subliminals I would use a low frequency for sleep but then add brief periods of higher frequencies.
This periodically brings the brainwaves up into a theta range (best for direct access to the subconscious) but not into full wakefullness.
Something like 5 to 10 seconds every 20 to 30 minutes then a few minutes of 4 Hz then ramp back down to 0.5 to 2.
Essentially trying to mimic a normal sleep/dream pattern with excursions into theta range to make the subliminals more effective.
My wife is using this recipe (with silent subs) for her fall asleep file and she loves it.

[tonguester4_69]

05/03/2014 at 2:57 am

Your recipe actually sounds like a useful thing for me, but I have no idea how to put something like that together. I know others have said it can be done in Audacity, but it seems to elude me how to do it.