Conditionals

[trainer81]

03/06/2014 at 4:21 pm

I’m just curious to know what kind of success or failure people have had with conditionals. I know some sites discourage the use of conditionals, but this doesn’t make sense to me. After all, hypnotists can set triggers with subjects, and a trigger is really the subconscious following a conditional. (And, in this forum, sdalie posted about using triggers with subliminals.)

So I think that the subconscious is perfectly able to understand and process conditionals. But it may be the case that it needs to be worded in a certain way.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the idea of the trigger. If I could say “blow job” and immediately get one, I’d be all for it. But I’m also thinking about conditionals in a more general sense. Unfortunately, that typically is harder to prove one way or the other.

I have one conditional in my “wife surrender” script: “I relax when I am with my husband.” I have to say that this has met with great success, although I have made conscious efforts here as well. So whether I can attribute the success solely or even partially to subliminals is difficult to assess.

Anyway, I’m putting ideas together for a new script, and I think I’ll be adding more conditionals than I have currently.

Any thoughts on the subject are appreciated.

[eldrin81]

03/06/2014 at 7:28 pm

There is one person on the site who had success with triggers. I have my own experience that points to the fact that it conditionals can easily be ignored by the subconscious, atleast the part after the conditional word(ie. when) . Much of his work has to do with word association. So not all of his statements are simple I do this when thing happens statements. I believe that to be effective a conditional statement must be very simple in wording, and must having surrounding non conditional statements to support it. Simply throwing in a conditional statement into a regular script is probably ineffective. However a short script focused around one or two conditionals probably works if do e well. This is just my hypothesis from what I have read here and my own experience.

The holy grail of course from a conditional/trigger script is to be able to trigger a behavior or sensation on command, or from some other stimulus. Usually the desire for such a triggeris always sex related. Some sort of male fantasy of being able to trigger sex, oral, or orgasm in the woman simply by commanding it. One of our members claims to have done just that, triggering orgasmic release in his mate from a specific number of slaps on the ass with whip or some such.

[Tap]

03/07/2014 at 2:00 am

Most of the scientific literature says stay away from conditionals because they aren’t effective. Simple is always best for the subconscious. The reason is the subconscious does not see or view things analytically like the conscious.

“I relax when I’m with my husband” might be interpreted as “I relax with my husband.” Actually, saying it like that would be the better affirmation.

The same reason they say don’t use negatives, “I do not like smoking” might be heard as “I do like smoking” defeating the purpose.

My suggestion is, to be on the safe side, try to word it so that there is no conditional.

[trainer81]

03/07/2014 at 5:09 pm

Tap, I haven’t gone into much research on subliminals, but everything I’ve read on hypnosis says that the subconscious will accept conditionals. As I pointed out above, hypnotists can get a subject to follow a “trigger” and we even have one member here who has gotten his wife to respond to triggers.

Hypnosis and subliminals are just two different ways of reaching the subconscious. With hypnosis, the subconscious is being directly commanded by someone else, whereas with subliminals, we are “tricking” the subconscious into thinking new thoughts (that’s my understanding anyway – correct me if that’s wrong). I believe it is this difference and the way we’ve attempted to introduce conditionals that causes the problem, not that the subconscious can’t handle conditionals. I agree that you shouldn’t use a conditional if it isn’t necessary, but there are times when they are useful.

I’m not sure where you’ve read that the subconscious is not as analytical as the conscious. If anything, the subconscious is TOO analytical/logical/literal. It’s like talking to Spock or Data, (depending on which generation of Star Trek you watched). The subconscious does not understand euphemism, for instance. If a hypnotist directs a subject to get “hot and bothered,” a likely out come is NOT that the subject gets aroused (which was the obvious intent), but that the subject’s body temperature increases (hot) and becomes physically uncomfortable (bothered). It is the conscious mind that is emotional/irrational/illogical.

Some hypnotists even describe talking to the subconscious as writing a computer program. You have to say EXACTLY what you want it to do. If you do not, it can fill in the gaps in an unpredictable fashion, just like a program with bugs. And like a computer, garbage in, garbage out.

I’m confident that it is possible to get the subconscious to respond to conditionals because hypnotists have been doing it for decades. The question we need to answer is: how?

[eldrin81]

03/07/2014 at 7:28 pm

Unfortunately there is little “true” scientific evidence on subliminals. There are other self proclaimed experts out there. I could care less about those however, I do trust the experiences people have on this site.

On the one hand, my own experience directly supports Taps assertions that conditional words get ignored, and the rest of the statement is heard.

Consider this lone statement, placed in one if my first scripts many months ago, when I was stupid and green:
I feel sick to my stomach when I keep things from Eldrin.

Guess what effect that had? I saw no change in my wife, but I became paranoid, and felt that queasy knot in my stomach you get when you know something bad is going on. It actually made me think my wife was cheating on me. Leading me to the conclusion that my subconscious heard this:

I feel sick to my stomach. I keep things from Eldrin.

We were both hearing subliminals for the first time, and it seems during the initial phase, the subconscious is especially susceptible to them.

In addition, many here have used the word when, a conditional word in their scripts, such as Qwerty’s first script for Breast play. It has numerous instances of the word when. He experienced good results. However it doesn’t make a good case for whether or not the word when gets ignored. If you analyze that script, it has several other regular statements that say the same thing as his when statements. In addition, if the subconscious hears just the two parts separately
Ie.

I am very aroused when my husband touches my breasts
I am very aroused. My husband touches my breasts.

Those still make sense, and any arousal or breast play garnered from such statements, supported by statements like:

I crave for my husband to touch my breasts more often.

Cannot make a case for proof of concept for conditional statements. There is no way to isolate them from the other non conditional statements that say virtually the same thing as what he intended. Many other scripts of people using when, or other conditionals are like this. The only way to test it would be to make a script of ONLY conditional statements and take notes.

https://dreamgirlsgt.com/forum/my-public-journal/submissive-slut-training/

Sdalie’s post about triggers:

https://dreamgirlsgt.com/forum/subliminal-writing-1/triggers/#p2869

[eldrin81]

03/07/2014 at 7:38 pm

If you read one of Sdalie’s examples on how to do a trigger script, you will see that he uses the word when, a few times, however, even if the subconscious ignores that word, the statement remains the same, and much of his work relies instead on association of a word, or concept with a behavior. Only one or two stamens are structured using conditional words like when.

So yes, the subconscious is analytical, but in a straight forward manner. I doubt seriously that statements like:

I am aroused when my husband commands.

Would have the intended effect. They would probably get aroused more often however because of the first part of the sentence.

[eldrin81]

03/07/2014 at 7:47 pm

Tap is more of a “why fix what ain’t broke” or “why reinvent the wheel” type of guy, at least from what I have observed.

People like me, and a few others however, are always trying to “build a better mouse trap”. That can often work to our detriment and delay progress when you waltz down a path that simply doesn’t pan out, and you lose weeks or months of time. It can lead to frustration if you experiment too much.

A good analogy is fitness. How many people hop to a new fitness program every 2-4 weeks, whatever is trendy. And those same people spend years looking the same way, lifting the same weights, same level of strength, at best, at worst they leave out of frustration.

Too much experimentation without a good base can delay progress needlessly. I think the key to patience in this endeavor is to have your scripts set up in such a way that you will see small “victories” along the way.

Again, taking Qwerty as an example, he started with breast play, an easier task for him, since he noted his wife would let him play with those puppies when she was drunk(pre existing behavior), and it led to other behaviors for her naturally. It gave him a reward mechanism, to tide his satisfaction over, while he waited on existing scripts to work, and worked on future ones.

[trainer81]

03/07/2014 at 9:40 pm

Eldrin – Hypnotists have PROVEN that conditionals work with the subconscious. If subliminal conditionals aren’t working, it isn’t because the subconscious rejects/ignores conditionals, it is because we are communicating incorrectly.

I don’t see the point in arguing over whether the subconscious can deal with conditionals because in my mind, that question is settled in the affirmative.

The question to me is how do we get conditionals working in subliminals? Hypnotists can do it, so we should be able to it also. How?

For the record, hypnotists do report having issues using negatives (although it isn’t necessarily the case that the subconscious ignores the negative). So I agree that it is important to avoid using negatives in subliminals as well. But I think conditionals should be accepted if done correctly given the results reported by hypnotists. We just don’t know a foolproof way of doing it with subliminals yet.

Also, your own experience doesn’t necessarily prove anything about conditionals. Your subconscious could have accepted that conditional statement as is. The phrase “kept things” is highly ambiguous, and lots of people could “keep things” from themselves. I have no doubt that the subconscious does keep things from the conscious self, so your subconscious may have interpreted the conditional correctly, with the only mistake being that it wasn’t supposed to be accepting subliminals meant for your wife.

[eldrin81]

03/07/2014 at 11:11 pm

@adrz74 said:

Eldrin – Hypnotists have PROVEN that conditionals work with the subconscious. If subliminal conditionals aren’t working, it isn’t because the subconscious rejects/ignores conditionals, it is because we are communicating incorrectly.

Hypnotists have only proven conditionals work with hypnosis. Subliminals may be talking to the subconscious, but they aren’t the same as hypnosis. Its a different methodolgy altogether. Consider that people under hypnosis are still awake, and their conscious minds still hear the words of the hypnotist. If they are not resistant, they can be put into a deep trance, and commanded, suggested, and told to forget what happened. However, they cannot be made to do something they are totally unwilling to do, and if they are not told to forget everything that happened, they will remember everything that happened during the session. So at best, you are talking to the subconscious through the conscious mind. Subliminals are never heard by the conscious. Subliminals can eventually, through enough repetition change behaviors and thought patterns, even against the nature of the individual.

I don’t see the point in arguing over whether the subconscious can deal with conditionals because in my mind, that question is settled in the affirmative.

I was never arguing with you to begin with. You asked for people’s opinions, success and or failure on the topic, and stated a certain level of confusion, citing Hypnosis and its ability to use conditionals as a seeming contradiction. Tap gave you his opinion, and I played a bit of devil’s advocate, and provided some observational evidence about traditional conditional statements like: “I kiss my husband when he commands”.

The question to me is how do we get conditionals working in subliminals? Hypnotists can do it, so we should be able to it also. How?

Change your perception of a conditional. We are not saying you cannot get the end result of a conditional, just saying that wording it as “I do this thing when this thing happens” is most likely not going to work. Looking over Sdalie’s trigger examples, he is triggering behaviors, a trigger is a conditional thing, but he is not using conditional statments like I just showed to do it. Thats all we’re saying.

For the record, hypnotists do report having issues using negatives (although it isn’t necessarily the case that the subconscious ignores the negative). So I agree that it is important to avoid using negatives in subliminals as well.

Nobody ever said that the subconscious ignores negatives, just that it causes the mind to focus on the wrong thing. Saying I am not a smoker, and the person still focuses on the term smoker, and identifies with that. It is not impossible, just not effective. Negatives also refer to negative emotions and such, these almost always backfire, saying “I hate this thing” and then your wife is mad or hateful or depressed. Its just as easy to say “I love the other thing” and then get the positive emotions.

Also, your own experience doesn’t necessarily prove anything about conditionals…

I never said it was proof, I offered it up as mere evidence that seems to support a certain conclusion.

…so your subconscious may have interpreted the conditional correctly, with the only mistake being that it wasn’t supposed to be accepting subliminals meant for your wife.

My subconscious has never accepted any of the affirmations meant for my wife when worded like that. I listen to every subliminal that she does day in day out. My subconscious is perfectly capable of rejecting nonsensical statements that don’t seem to apply to me, so that isn’t the reason

[eldrin81]

03/07/2014 at 11:14 pm

The best thing to discuss here, is rather than go on this roundtable discussion of exactly what the subconscious rejects, or accepts, lets focus on what you exactly are trying to do with conditionals, and how we can help you with that task.

[Tap]

03/08/2014 at 5:44 am

http://createsubliminalmessages.com/avoid-using-negative-words-in-message-scripts/

“The message script of a subliminal, supraliminal or paraliminal audio recording is the foundation on which all other components are built.

It is far more important than the sound or masking track and any potential brainwave track.

An important aspect of designing it is to ensure that the use of negative words and phrases is avoided.

What these are and how to ensure the message script statements are written in a positive manner is explained in detail.

When designing any type of self-help message script you may unintentionally use words, terms or phrases that do not send the correct message to the subconscious mind of a listener.
Why Negative Words Should be Avoided in a Message Script

Subconscious mind and negative wordsWords often considered harmless but negative in nature can actually reduce the desired effect of the self-help recording.

In addition to negative words, there are also contractions, conditional words, terms and phrases that should never be used.

The reason for excluding any form of negative words or phrases in a message script is due to the simple nature of the subconscious mind.

It does not have the reasoning capabilities of the conscious mind and is unable to understand or interpret negative terms and will simply ignore any such words included in a statement.

Conditional words should also be avoided because of similar reasons. The childlike reasoning capabilities of the subconscious mind are unable to process conditional statements because of its inability to differentiate between the past, present and future.
List of Words and Contractions to Avoid in a Message Script

Message Script Statement to Avoid UsingSome obvious negative words to avoid using in any message statements are not, never, and related contractions such as can’t, or won’t.

Regrettably, there are many others and it can be difficult to know all or even most of them.

To save time, presented below is a list of the most important words and contractions you should not use when designing your statements for a message script.

Against, Afraid, Angry, Anguish, Aren’t, Avoid
Banish, Barren
Can’t, Cautious, Closed, Concerned
Danger, Didn’t, Dislike, Don’t, Doubtful
Envy, Envious, Evil
Failure, Fear, Fearful, Furious
Gloom, Gone, Greed, Gross
Hate, Haven’t, Hesitant
Isn’t, Impossible, Improbable
Just, Justified
Last, Lose, Loser, Losing, Lost
Missing, Missed, Mistake
Never, No, Not
Obstacle, Opposed
Punish, Pain, Painful, Painless
Queasy, Questionable
Reduced, Retarded, Restricted
Scared, Secret, Sick, Suspect, Suspicious
Terrified, Tormented
Unable, Unhealthy, Unlikely, Unwilling
Why, Won’t, Wouldn’t

This represents only some of the words, variations or contractions to be avoided, and there many others that you will likely discover. If uncertain as to the meaning of a word, either look it up or avoid using it entirely.

Also, there is no reason to use complex words because the subconscious mind will not understand them, and simpler is definitely better.
Conditional Terms and Phrases to Avoid in a Message Script

In addition to understanding what words or contractions not to use in a message script, there are also conditional terms and phrases that should be avoided.

They are considered conditional because the outcome is uncertain and dependent on another event happening first.

Avoiding Conditional Terms and PhrasesThe subconscious mind does not understand the nature of the past or the future, as does the conscious mind.

It can only comprehend the present and because of this, conditional message statements will likely have no effect in achieving the desired goal of the recording.

The best example of the most important conditional word to avoid is “if”.

Using it implies that the desired result can only be achieved when something else occurs first.

Since the subconscious mind is unable to understand the future, it will ignore that part of the statement.

There are specific words, terms and phrases that are conditional, but this may not always be obvious. A list of words, terms and phrases that are considered to be conditional is provided below.

After
Before
But
Conditional, Could
Depending on
Even though
However
If
May
Once this
Perhaps
Prior to
Upon
What if
When
Will
Would

Using any of these words or phrases presents a possible future based on a previous event that may never happen. What is preferable is to project and state a specific future to the subconscious. This cannot be done by using statements that are worded as conditional.

The subconscious mind must be presented with statements describing the goal as already achieved or that it is in the process of being achieved. Designing messages worded in the form “I am”, or “I am becoming” is far more desirable and effective.
Dangers of Poorly Written Message Statements

Since the subconscious mind does not understand negative or conditional words in a message, it will essentially ignore them. For example, if your intention was to design a subliminal recording to help people quit smoking and did not follow the suggested guidelines, you may initially write a message statement such as “I don’t smoke”.

The subconscious would ignore the negative word and receive the message as “I smoke”. If a similar statement was worded conditionally as “If I smoke I may get sick”, the subconscious would translate this into “I smoke, I get sick”.

Subliminal Message Scripts Ignored by SubconsciousAt a minimum, this would render the messages ineffective and not help achieve the target goal. In the extreme, the message statements may actually make the situation worse.

This is the most important reason for ensuring that certain words are never used when writing your message scripts.

It is to your advantage and of benefit to your potential listeners that you become familiar with what words are better, and which words, terms or phrases should be avoided. Knowing this will only help you to design and build a more effective recording.

By following the guidelines presented here, you are also embracing a basic but important principle about creating self-help recordings.

Each and every recording, whether subliminal, supraliminal or paraliminal, should always be designed so that it helps the listener and does no harm in any way.

It may seem easier at times to choose negative words or conditional statements when writing message statements. Finding the right positive words to use can require some creativity at times, but if you strive to follow these guidelines, it will likely become easier to do as you gain more experience writing message statements.

The message scripts you design should be written so that they follow not only the guidelines presented here, but others equally important. You should review how to use the first and second person perspectives, incorporating sub-themes and using the present or near present tense properly.”

[Tap]

03/08/2014 at 5:50 am

I’ve read many websites like the above. When a lot say the same thing, I feel it’s best to follow what the “experts” recommend. I put that in quotes because who knows if all what they say is true. You can experiment and try for yourself.

From my own experience with subliminals, I will say this though. Present tense, short, simple, “I am” statements are the most effective. I’m talking like:

I like sex.
I am submissive.
I obey my husband.
I am a slave.
I like BJs.

Now all our affirmations can’t be that short to say what we want, but if you can make your affirmations as short as possible, it will be more effective.