another silent volume discussion

[pizzaman69]

08/21/2014 at 4:53 pm

I confess, I don’t know enough about the Nyquist adjustment in audacity to know what it does or how it works. I just follow the instructions in the ebook tutorial and make my silent files by rote. I follow the instructions but don’t understand it – I just do it and it works.

So I need help from you guys that understand it better about the play back volume of silent files created in Audacity exactly like the tutorial except I leave the volume normal – the original volume without the reducing the volume step that is in the ebook.

I have read the discussions and comments here about volume levels on playing the silent files but I have never seen it explained in terms of relating the silent volume relative to the normal file volume before it was converted to silent.

Here is what I mean – suppose I have a regular out loud file that when I play it in a room at 50% volume, it is a perfect loudness. It reaches that entire room but cant be heard in other rooms. But its not too loud so that it hurts the ears in the room where it is being played. The ear hears it and receives the messages out loud perfectly.

Now I use the ebook steps to convert that same file to silent except I leave the volume the same without turning it down. I now have a silent file. When I play it in the same room with the same player, do I still use 50% volume? I cant really hear how loud it is. Do I use 80% volume? 130% volume? or what volume to have the same perfect coverage and ability for the ear to receive the message as silent vibrations?

I have already read the opinions about “play it full volume” etc on the various other threads here … I am not interested in that. I am trying to get at the relationship of a regular sound file verses a silent file vibrations in the ear if all else remains the same except just converted to silent. Should that silent file be played the same volume? or louder/softer? and if louder/softer, then how much = what percentage of the original file playing volume. 120%? 70%? or what? to reach the ear and be decoded as messages the same as the out loud file.

[pizzaman69]

08/21/2014 at 5:01 pm

I also have a followup question as it relates to silent files. In addition to the original post I am wondering what silent files sound like to those that have expanded hearing frequency ranges such as children or others that can hear wider ranges? Has anyone seen or read any info about that?

Do they just hear loud screeching and high pitched sounds? or can they actually hear the messages spoken at just high pitched sound? Can they make out the messages? or just hear high pitched sounds?

Thanks in advance for helping me understand silent files better.

[Qwerty]

08/21/2014 at 5:23 pm

Pizzaman,
Let me answer your second question first. You can hear the the words or some semblance of the words depending on where the file range is and where your hearing is. So for instance the closer to the upper range of your hearing the more it will become a tone rather than speech.

As for your first question; as the higher frequency gave more energy but disperse quicker, it really does depend on what your goal is. A comfortable zone close to the zone then you should be reducing volumes to a little under half of what a comfortable normal frequency file would be played at. That does not mean you can not play it higher or lower, just talking similar energy on the ear. If you want the same coverage you get then you need to go higher in volume and obstacles (furniture, walls, etc) will have a more profound effect on how the sound propagates. So your question is not as simple as if seems.

[Tap]

08/22/2014 at 3:52 am

Why wouldn’t you reduce the volume? From my understanding, you are not performing the reducing amp step? I’m not sure how it would sound, and not sure your file is even really a silent. On regular volume your files might sound loud in itself.

If you are using a true silent like how the ebook says to make it, I recommend the highest volume possible. It is entirely possible that if you put it at half volume, she won’t hear anything discernible. Likewise, if your player is too far from her, she might not hear anything. All your months of playing like this will be for nothing. I believe this is a possible reason why some people see no positive effects on the woman, because she’s not hearing anything.

The exception to playing it at full volume is if she wears earphones or headphones to listen to it. In this case, the sound vibrations are so close to her ear drum, it is possible for it being too loud to cause deafness. It should be lower in these cases.

[pizzaman69]

08/22/2014 at 2:56 pm

Hi Tap,

I think reducing the volume so drastically waaaay down as described in the ebook for making silent files would make the silent file so weak it will not be received at all by the ear at all. If the signal is too weak to be perceived there will be no effect. What is the purpose of reducing the volume that severely? how does reducing the volume that severely help make the file better or easier to receive? it doesn’t….

the scenario here is the silent file volume is left normal and not reduced before inputing the Nyquist command…. in that scenario, what volume do you play the silent to reach the ear in the room assuming all else is equal? Do I use the same volume I would use on the out loud file before I made it a silent file?

same player, same room…. the original file before making it silent reached the room perfectly at 50% volume…. now I convert that original file to silent using Nyquist commands but I do not reduce the volume first. If I play the new silent file at 50% volume I can not hear it – it is indeed silent. But because it is silent, I can not tell if it is reaching the ear the same as it was before it was made to be a silent file or what volume I should use to play it.

I am searching for a volume relationship in terms of percentage between original out loud file play volume to the silent file play volume if all things remain the same except nyquist commands make the original in to a silent file…. do I use the same volume when I play the silent as I used to play the original out loud file? or more/less? if more/less then how much more/less expressed as a percentage of the volume used on the original out loud file.

[pizzaman69]

08/22/2014 at 3:07 pm

Thanks Querty, That is exactly the kind of info I am trying to get. If I understand your answer correctly, then for silent files I either have to move the player closer to the subject and keep path of sound clear from obstacles…. or play the volume louder for the silent file relative to the original out loud file in order to have the same reach/coverage in a room.

Theoretically I can start by playing the outloud file and see what volume is best, then turn it up some for the silent file?

or, perhaps I misunderstood your answer…. which is it? *LOL*

[pizzaman69]

08/22/2014 at 3:20 pm

ok I have yet another question for discussion. I plan to make silent files using the nyquist commands in audacity and then mix it with music files that my wife likes and play them in our vehicle CD player.

The Vehicle Speakers are just a few feet away and there are no obstacles between player and the ear.

My plan is to have the silent file volume at about the same volume as the music file prior to using the Nyquist commands to convert the messages file to silent… good or bad idea? My assumption/theory is that even though the original file volume was the same as the music volume, it will be silent and undetectable after making it to silent and mixing it with music. Any comments? Suggestions? good idea or bad?

[seekenq]

08/22/2014 at 3:33 pm

I don’t think you have to reduce the sound nearly as far when overlaying behind other music / rain noises etc.
You do have to be careful with music though (as opposed to rain files) because sometimes there are silences in the music and you don’t want the message to suddenly be “in the clear”.

[pizzaman69]

08/22/2014 at 3:42 pm

I guess I don’t understand the reducing the volume so much before converting the file to silent so that I have to play the file at full volume and hope it is still “hearable”. That does not “sound” very scientific to me (pun intended yuk yuk).

There can be variances in the original file volumes so that if one is already kinda quiet, why further reduce it? Also – Different players have different powers and the speaker variances can be huge. One guy can be reducing the original file to nearly nothing and playing it back at full volume on weak player with weak speakers and it still is so weak it cant be heard and he should have left the volume up before converting it to silent, while another guy can reduce the volume to nearly nothing and play it back full blast on powerful player and speakers and have it too loud. One guy might be using an already low volume file for the original messages and another guy can have the original messages recorded at very loud volume….. should they both reduce the volume the exact same (to nearly zilch) when converting their message file to silent? That makes no sense to me.

Why go thru the mechanics of lowering the volume so that it has to be played at full volume anyway?

Why not use a relationship between original out loud play volume to the nyquist converted silent file playback volume as the basis to determine silent file volume? If that can be determined, then all those variables can be compensated for by just finding the optimal volume for the outloud file using your particular player and speakers before converting it to silent. Perhaps I am the one misunderstanding things – I am new to all this and trying to put it all together in my own mind.

[Qwerty]

08/22/2014 at 7:20 pm

The main reason for the reduction in amplification is to ensure you don’t blow out your speakers. Tweeters are notorious for blowing out with only a minor change in volume.

[J66R]

08/23/2014 at 12:28 am

To the point of children hearing them.

Before I made the suggestive customs, I experimented with different volumes. I myself have always had an expanded hearing range. Dog whistles and mosquito rings are loud and clear to me and always have been even though I am approaching 50ish.

One of my sons has apparently inherited my range and he was able to hear some words distinctly even when I was barely able to perceive that there were actually words or distinctive sounds. That gave me a baseline on volume. I can now tell by the volume the recording is at when I listen to it how much I need to turn it up or down to keep him from hearing actual words.

Some of you may recall I run customs for my wife on her computer and customs for my children on theirs, each tailored to the individual. I also experimented with recording volume to adjust to how loud they run their own headphones and speakers and so that others in the room would not hear them when they were playing.

The ones in the bedroom for my wife (sex sex & more sex related), and the ones on the TV PC in the family room (for general family harmony) are the only ones played in areas, or conditions where they are loud enough to hear in the entire room.

[Tap]

08/23/2014 at 4:06 am

@pizzaman69 said:

I guess I don’t understand the reducing the volume so much before converting the file to silent so that I have to play the file at full volume and hope it is still “hearable”. That does not “sound” very scientific to me (pun intended yuk yuk).

There can be variances in the original file volumes so that if one is already kinda quiet, why further reduce it? Also – Different players have different powers and the speaker variances can be huge. One guy can be reducing the original file to nearly nothing and playing it back at full volume on weak player with weak speakers and it still is so weak it cant be heard and he should have left the volume up before converting it to silent, while another guy can reduce the volume to nearly nothing and play it back full blast on powerful player and speakers and have it too loud. mind.

What you said is true. However, the way you’re making your customs might be too loud if one were to put the player at full volume. It would be noticeable by anyone in the area including your wife. Almost all subliminal websites sell a version of the silent. The point of it is so that no one around will know it’s playing. That’s what make silents so good. I play them at work for myself and different ones sometimes for coworkers nonstop through the day. No one knows they are playing.

By your way of making them, if someone accidentally turns up the volume, you’re instantly discovered. I do think reducing the amp to -44 as per Trainer’s instructions is too low. I prefer -23 as a decent rate, and at high volume on most players, you just hear some squeaking. Since I’ve seen results on my wife, I know she’s hearing them.

Also, my wife’s hearing isn’t that good. At times, I myself can hear it squeaking, but when I put the phone near my wife’s ear or near her, she doesn’t say anything. I had it at the same volume for a coworker one time where I couldn’t really hear it, but my coworker did and asked why my phone was making noises. I was surprised. So you really have to base it also on the hearing ability of the subject.

[hotaceazn]

08/23/2014 at 9:43 pm

Not sure how relevant this is regarding the actual frequencies, but one thing I always do is create a file that has not been adjusted. It is a full volume file that I play to gauge how far a sound from the device can be based on volume I recorded at (I have been adjusting the volume on the textaloud program). I then play that on the device and check how clear I can hear the sound in the room. If all is well, I then apply the silence to it and that seems to have worked well for me.

[J66R]

08/24/2014 at 6:52 am

Keep in mind also that the higher the frequency the less distance it can travel before becoming distorted.

Kind of like WiFi networks, lower bands like 2.4GHz carry less information but travel farther and pass through objects (walls furniture etc) better than higher bands like 5GHz which can carry more information (giving faster speeds) but is more affected by obstacles and gives good connection over a smaller area. Turning up transmit power (volume) on your router can then help coverage.

In the same way you may find you need to “turn it up” a little once the unmodified file is shifted to the higher frequencies.

The above deals only with the basic similarities in this application of sound frequencies. I’m NOT going to get into channelization, beam forming, spatial streams or MIMO, which do not have much of an application here unless you have the $$$ for some of the newer more experimental Cinema sound systems.

[pizzaman69]

08/24/2014 at 5:13 pm

Hotaceazn – that is also what I do and what led to my post here.